Robert Krulwich: Here is for you the hardest thing. I was just trying to think about how difficult this must be. You have been… Your life has been saved by her. She is, in effect, your savior. And yet your belief is that unless she accepts Jesus, that in some sense she is outside of grace and you know, I don’t know what you believe about hell and heaven, but that she might be punished. So what do you do about this weird combination. She’s insisting nope, not for me and you’re insisting oh no, this is the way it is and oh my gosh… Is it hard for you?
Jim Munroe: No, not at all.
RK: Okay
JM: And I’ll tell you why because it’s not my place to do that. I am very sorry to everyone who listens to this who ever feels like they got judged by a Christian because it’s never their place to do that. And this is where I think most of the times and everybody listening to this podcast is placed as kind of positioned or pigeonholed Christians and what they don’t understand is that I’m not commanded to do anything but to love and to start conversations, right? I’m not the one. I’m not the one who was sent into the world to judge, alright? But what I… so… putting it like that - i know where you want to go with this…
RK: No, this is I’m asking an honest question. You have to love the judge that may not love the woman who saved your life. That’s hard, I think.
JM: Yeah but at the same time it’s… That’s not what I’m.. that’s not my place.
Soren Wheeler: I have to say I think that we were sort of expecting that maybe sharper edge to the differences between JIm and Jennell. But the truth is, in the room that night Jim and Jennells conversation and thus their story start to feel like some kind of allegory, not for any particular religion, or moral code, but for a way of how to move through the world and hold your differences but still be one.
RK: Let me just finish this way. Do you have a sense between the two of you? Because obviously you stay very very good friends. I mean that’s obvious. Is there some... Something that either of you can say that explains why you can dignifyingly but emphatically disagree and still stay in such extraordinarily close touch?
Jennell Jenney: I think the idea of humility and, as Jim might even say grace, is absolutely essential, no matter your tenets of belief. And that’s really what’s going to get you through conflict so yeah…
RK: And is it because you’re in this big ocean of the world and the two of you are just little little dots in there and so whatever you think it’s still you’re in a big ocean and there you are together? Is that the…
JJ: I think maybe yeah.
JM: Yeah. And…
RK: Do you have her bigness thing? Do you feel small?
JM: Do I feel small?
RK: Yeah
JM: I feel tiny. Humility at its root word it comes… The root is humos. Which means dirt. So when you become humble you become dirt.
RK: That’s better than the sea analogy, I think…
JM: I could keep going. You know, what god does with dirt is he creates things, but I won’t go there. But we become dirt, and I think where we get hung up is that we want to be right. And that hasn’t been brought into this yet. And right and wrong are… The words right and wrong I think in relationship are deadly words. I think saying I’m right, you’re wrong is not good for relationships. I think it’s…
RK: And have you ever said you’re right or you’re wrong to her?
JM: No.
JJ: I haven’t said it to him either, I don’t think.
JM: Never
RK: Well that’s a nice place to land.
JM: I think so.
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